I’ve been playing WAR for the past week or so and it has utterly failed to grab my attention. This is rare. Usually, for a triple-A game, I get at least a couple weeks of solid entertainment before boredom sets in. For me, WAR has many core problems and honestly, I’m not sure why the game is so appealing to so many people.
1. ‘Old School’ one monster at a time PvE
This is the biggest problem. In Age of Conan (and other recent games like Tabula Rasa, Sword of the New World and Hellgate London) many of your attacks are area based. Most of the PvE encounters are you versus a group of monsters. Facing multiple mobs at one time adds so much complexity to the PvE grind.
Imagine playing a single player action game where you face an endless stream of solo monsters for hours and hours. Imagine God of War or Grand Theft Auto or Mass Effect with only solo encounters. You’d get utterly bored of the game very quickly. The fun comes from managing groups of monsters, positioning yourself properly, managing your resources and most importantly, FEELING HEROIC.
When it’s you versus a group, you are a hero. When you have just enough power to kill a solo monster, you are just a peon…a lowly minion…no one special.
2. Public Quests are just another grind
At first, PQ seemed like a clever idea. Now that I’ve done dozens, I’m utterly bored of them. They are all basically the same. Kill a ton of trash mobs, then kill a dozen stronger mobs, then kill some boss mobs. The only difference is that you do it with a random group of people.
A grind is a grind is a grind. In order to get the rewards from doing PQ’s, you have to grind enough to earn influence or work hard enough and be lucky enough to get a reward. That takes grinding time.
I’m actually starting to think that PQ’s are a lazy way out for the developers to make content. Compared to making a dungeon, a PQ is just a big open space with endlessly spawning monsters. Add a thin (and pointless) storyline and the developer can move on to the next task.
3. Scenarios are too simple and straightforward
I prefer the elven classes (for both Order and Destruction). I’ve done Khaine’s Embrace many times now and I’m SICK TO DEATH of it. Two capture points. Two paths back and forth. That’s it. Very little strategy. Very little variation.
I’ve done the other tier 1 scenarios as well and they are just as simple.
I would much rather do Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin over and over. Both of those are well designed mini-games with quite a lot of variation and strategy. In comparison, the Tier 1 scenarios in WAR are basically zergfests.
PvP is fun. Zerging is fun for a while, but it gets stupid and boring very quickly.
So basically, most of the PvE combat and a primary form of PvP in WAR is utterly boring to me. No wonder I’m not having any fun.
Does WAR magically become far more interesting in later tiers? If I grind myself to utter boredom for a few weeks doing stupid quests, stupidier public quests and simple minigames, can I finally get to the meat of the game?
I’m seriously considering rerolling one of my favorite classes on one of the popular servers in Age of Conan. I can make a Bear Shaman on Cimmeria and have fun killing everyone with the most overpowered PvP class. Of course, endgame content is still severely lacking, but if I take it slow, maybe Funcom (with their new management) will have fixed many of the issues with the game.
I agree. I was unfairly critical of play on Age of Conan, however the game is boring… and ugly. When I play Conan, even LOTRO, the game is fun, the music pulses and it is good. Have a good party and things rock. Warhammer just is bland. It is like white bread. I do admit the RVR stuff is good and it surpises me that it took mythic to fiqure it out. Really wasn’t AO RVR? Why did AOC forget this fact? The guild stuff depends on playing too much hardcore. Maybe an expansion in the future will creat an alternative country to fight with. I am sorry for wasting 80 dollars on this game.
Bear shaman? Why not challenge yourself… go assassin
Not many things harder than a squishy melee!
AoC was rather bland at the lower levels and then it just seem to dump you with no direction. I’m having a blast so far in WAR you should get it another try after a couple weeks after launch!
Assassin, eh? I haven’t tried playing that class yet. I wasn’t impressed with them prior to all the gems and I haven’t seen an assassin post nerf. So I’m not really sure how the class does in PvP.
Sigh. I’m not looking forward to doing Tortage again though. I’ve leveled eight characters now through Tortage…I feel like I can do it in my sleep now.
I do feel like I’m not giving WAR a real chance, though. Maybe the classes I picked just aren’t working for me. Sigh. I’ll force myself to at least reach Tier 2 on a character before blasting the game again, hah.
I was getting a little frustrated with the lack of content in AoC, and went back to LOTRO because I heard they finally got some population again. I used to love that game but our server became deserted and I wasn’t about to pay for a toon transfer.
Despite the beautiful landscapes, after AoC my toons just felt retarded in combat and I used to think they looked cool, now their bodies just seemed awkward looking to me. I came back to AoC at least till I see where the new management takes it. What they need is what LOTRO and CoH has. Lots and lots of updated content. Those 2 games amaze me at how much they give their subscribers. Conan’s could be awesome, just needs more.
I play Bear Shaman,PoM and a demo. I recommend a Demo.They’re alot of fun.
Love this sight btw. I read it alot.
Interesting to read that someone out there doesn’t like WAR. Most bloggers are raving about it as the best thing since sliced bread.
Maybe try a different class if you aren’t having fun?
The scenarios change dramatically at Tier 2. In Tier 2, I’ve played CTF, Smear the Queer, and this weird King of the Hill/CTF Hybrid scenario.
I’ve tried DoK, White Lion, Archmage, Bright Wizard, Sorcerer, Witch Elf, Warrior Priest, Swordmaster. I am unable to play an ugly toon, though, so no dwarves or greenskins for me.
My DoK and White Lion are getting close to Tier 2, so I’m going to force myself to keep playing.
I don’t really have a problem with the classes (except for various animations and more cosmetic issues). The DoK and White Lion could be fun classes. The Archmage and BW was interesting in the scenarios as well. It’s the gameplay that is the problem right now.
I was getting a little bored with WAR until I tried a Marauder, which I enjoy immensely.
That I said, I just re-activated my AoC account. Not sure if I will go back to my HoX, the ToS or roll up that Bear Shaman I always wanted to
The biggest question is PvE or PvP. I had my HoX on Cimmeria but never got out Tortage. How bad is ganking or should I just stick to PvE?
Before the PvP patch, I would have advised anyone to roll on a PvP server. Half the fun of playing AoC is the total freedom to attack anyone. When you get bored of killing monsters, go around and start stalking other players.
But now with the PvP patch, I’m not sure how bad ganking is at lower levels. Definitely in the 70’s, it’s much harder to do anything in Kheshatta now.
Hmm…even still, I would recommend at least giving a PvP server a try. Join a big guild. Get involved in the rampant guild wars. It’s fun having to worry whether anyone you run into will suddenly attack you. Similarly, it’s fun being the psycho that goes around killing people for sport.
Meh, I have never to been so great at getting into guilds. I am pretty introverted when it comes to online games. It’s amazing that I even continue to play MMOs at all
So which PvP server would you recommend: Cimmeria, Deathwhisper, Tyranny? Those seem to be the most popular ones ATM.
Hmm…since PvP in AoC is guild based, you are missing out on some of the gameplay if you don’t want to join a guild. If you join one of the big guilds, it doesn’t matter if you are introverted…many people never chat anyways.
The big guilds are the ones that do raids and sieges too. Again, you don’t have to say anything in chat…just follow orders.
Well, Cimmeria is a roleplaying server (although there are tons of people who don’t roleplay at all). That gives you another option for gameplay that you don’t find anywhere else. So I’d probably recommend Cimmeria.
It’s fun to attack someone, while pretending to be a certain character…makes it more fun than just random ganking.
If you don’t want to roleplay at all, Cimmeria is still a good choice. Last I heard, it is one of the most populated servers.
I play on Wiccana and it seems to have regular crowds for pve.
I’m on Bloodspire for the oceanic crowd.
Ganking has definitely dropped off with the population decrease and guild consolidations… in particular at the lower levels. Its still there, but it isn’t at the same griefing proportion it was in early days. Having said that the introduction of the pvp patch kind of killed of some unofficial guild truces with people getting excited by pvp experience
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I play assassin and PoM predominantly, but occasionally necro or guardian. Assassin is one of those classes that is frustrating to begin with, but once you start figuring out the strategies and technique you really start appreciating their capabilities… kind of like aquiring a taste for good scotch (my wife still thinks it still has a brown paper bag taste… got some work to do still there
). Assassins main disadvantage is their lack of cc until the higher levels… but the cc they do get then is pretty good. They definitely aren’t easy-mode WoW rogues or barbarians… once you get your head around that fact that they actually play like ‘assassins’, they are pretty enjoyable.
I play my PoM when i team with my ToS mate. It really is an epic combination… like you’ve said before, its great to be surrounded by mobs and feeling invulnerable as you throw your god’s wrath around
Two totally different playing styles, making pretty much repeating scenarios or areas a new experience each time… keeps it fresh for me.
From a selfish perspective Ferv0r, i’d like you to stick with WAR at least until your initial subscription runs out… your blog is one of the ones i’ll be using to determine whether I give WAR a run or not down the track
Been trying out Warhammer myself and I am enjoying it all right its a bit repetitive but that’s really the nature of computer games I think.
I was on Skullthrone initially but after some long que times I took there advice and switched, but if nobody is on then there is literally nothing to do almost all quest revolve around grouping. So I went back to the very high-pop server and I deal with it.
I am enjoying the game and I find its methodical play style a little more to my liking than AOC. I chose RPG’s because I wasn’t the fastest gun in the west with games anyhow. (haha) The graphics look so much better than they did in beta and the Inevitable City is really a cool hellish looking place that reminds me of Barlowe’s Inferno art book. I like the color palette they chose for many locations and the life that the locations seem to have. I found the green skin pit stops really feel hustle and bustle with NPC’s scurrying around doing this and that. Animations are wonky and game mechanics need some tweaking but I think I will stick with it. Really if I had my way I would just play City Of Heroes but I burned that game down to the ground as I did with WoW also. AOC was killing me with the left, right, left right, right, right attack mechanics. While that’s not to hard its well tedious and in PVP its aint easy and it certainly ups the skill quotient and I can see why excellent PVPers would enjoy it. Just wasn’t for me.
Glad you’re considering coming back to AoC. My fears about WAR mirror yours and AoC is getting better and better. I have used your builds for all my toons and the success is amazing. I am rolling a Necro at the moment, and notice in your earlier posts that you were running one too. Could you post your Necro build? This is a complex character, and again your advice would be invaluable. Thanks in advance.
Got my DoK to level 9 and now I’m struggling with a new skill (level eight) that has a totally screwed up animation. It is a 3 second (channeled?) melee ability and I can’t tell when the heck it finishes. It supposedly hits the opponent 4 times (and heals myself for a huge amount), but when the damage occurs is totally sporadic. Sometimes it happens right away. Sometimes, nothing seems to happen at all.
Playing my DoK and White Lion is just a mess of overlapping animations and sounds, laggy feedback and delayed damage and heals.
At level 9, I finally have a couple strong targeted heals, so I’m a better hybrid healer, which I appreciate a lot.
I will stick it out in WAR for a while. My primary AoC guild moved to WAR, so I want to give it a real chance before giving up on it.
@Casserole I’ve considered writing a necro guide for a while, but the problem is I haven’t gone into the Nightfall tree at all. I’m clueless about the best Nightfall feats. I’m pure reanimation. Many necromancers switch to Nightfall around 60-65. I’ll think about writing a short pre-60 reanimation guide, though.
Say, if you wanna look at another guild on Hyperborea, there’s a group of RPers and wannabe raiders on there from my old WoW server.
http://www.infernaldreams.com/invicta/
Nice group, come say hi sometime!
@Yasmina Invicta is a very good guild. I have a lot of respect for those guys. I’ve never, ever had any problems with any of them, and that is rather amazing since they are a bigger guild.
Since my primary guild is leaving (has left) for WAR, Invicta is the biggest guild now. It’ll be interesting to see how it turns out. Invicta is a ‘mercenary’ guild, but how can a mercenary guild also be the biggest?
I’m kinda in a limbo at the moment. Playing two MMORPG’s, a bunch of toons and too many servers. Once I get my mains re-established, I’ll get into the guild stuff again.
Many thanks Ferv0r. I have been reading Infares notes on the AoC forum under : No thread about leveling builds? , which seems to do the job. Was interested in Nightfall actually as don’t like to be a zoo-keeper. However, if you can squeeze in another guide…that will always be welcome! Best Wishes.
I just canceled my W:AR account. Struggled through open beta and made if a few days into live release. Two others I know from my guild have also given up on W:AR already.
I’ve no doubt it will be successful, likely moreso than Conan, but AoC really is a generation ahead of W:AR in so many ways. W:AR just feels slow and impersonal and I won’t be resubscribing.
I hope they do something to pump up the player content in AoC, as well as address server populations. Now would be a good time for a free trial?
Funny, I also don’t want to play ugly characters, which is why the only character I can bring myself to play is a Black Orc.
I’ve only been playing for a few days, up at level 10, but it seems that for now I’ll agree mostly with what you’ve said.. The game feels a bit too clunky so far.. I never really know if I’m using an ability or which ability I’m using, tends to go more towards mashing buttons after a while just hoping that something eventually dies.
I think it might end up well though, but it feels very unpolished right now in comparison with its competition.
That said I think all mmo’s currently are in a terrible (at least stale and unoriginal) state.
Saying WAR is worse than AoC is absurb. WAR’s crafting, guild system, ability to PvP for exp, the tome of knowledge are all unique fun features. Not to mention a fraction of the bugs that AoC had at release.
Even Mythic > Failcom. Funcom has created nothing but failed MMOs I played AO when it came out and it sucked I was really looking forward to AoC when it came out and i was disgusted by what was ACTUALLY released (nothing that FC promised lived up to their hype. PvP wasn’t even implemented until months later? are you kidding me? that was one of their biggest marketing draws) Some classes couldn’t even solo while others could 2 shot everyone. At least WAR is fairly balanced.
I understand 1 monster PvE fighting can be boring but public quests and scenarios are at least something new in the genre and so far I think they’re a lot of fun. Being able to take on 4 monsters at once is great but the sheer size of worlds and the fact that that means 4 times the mobs in each scenario just unnecessarily bogs down servers and lags players. AoC doesn’t even have an equivalent. They just have the same boring “go here kill 10 guys and come back” quests that every other MMO has right now and even quests are lacking in the mid levels forcing you to grind.
Sorry for the rant. I was one of AoC’s biggest supporters and I still write about AoC for a couple websites even though i quit. But i think Funcom just did too little too late. The game at release should have still been in early beta and the otherwise innovative combat system was overshadowed by the massive amount of exploits, bugs, balance issues.
Do I have issues with WAR? of course. but right now I think it’s the best game out there for the money and after the success of DAoC (which i was a huge fan of) Mythic knows the recipe for a solid MMO with fun RvR
@ Matt I couldn’t agree more with you there. Played DAoC for about 5 years. I was a RvR whore. If the game i’m playing has great RvR or PvP that is enough to keep me grinding through the PvE.
I live for RvR and PvE.
Currently have a 24 DoK and a 20 chosen. Both are fun classes i really enjoy them.
“In Age of Conan (and other recent games like Tabula Rasa, Sword of the New World and Hellgate London)”
LOL, didn’t bother to read passed that. Failed game, Failed game, Failed Game… and… failed game.
Nice.
@Lucid You understand what that means right? The general mass public just seems to want the old boring gameplay, instead of something that is new or engaging.
My point is still valid. The combat in AoC, TR, SotNW, and HGL is far better.
In WAR (and WoW), I can basically just macro the same sequence of keypresses for every single encounter. For my DoK, it’s 3, 2, 1, alt-3, alt-2, 1, 1, 1, 1 (or something like that). I can use the same sequence for the vast majority of my PvE encounters.
WoW is the same thing. Engage a single monster, then macro the keys.
Does that seem fun to you? No movement. The same sequence of keypresses for every monster.
Whether the game is a commercial success or not is not an indicator that the entire game is a failure.
I had/have a Warlock in WoW and what I would do during all long boss fight is this get ready its good. I would push the No. 4 key as fast as I possibly could for the entire 15-20 minute boss encounter. I just cast ShadowBolt now the way to get maxdps was to spam that key so that it was never not being pushed. Yep that’s it well I would refresh a debuff if I was assigned one. that’s the combat part it doesn’t include the complex boss fight which perhaps WoW players know are complex and require much more. I wondered about AOC how it would be to hit left, right, left, right and left a million times for 20 minutes it seems tedious.
I agree with ferv0r on the macros. Should not be allowed.
Where is the fun playing like a robot. I’m new to gaming
and only played WOW (without macros) from Jan 08 till AOC started May 20 08. I find AOC a bit overwhelming, especially
PVP with all the numbers of combos and spells that can used.
But I still enjoy the game, even with all the oom’s , crashes and lockups. I played 10 classes never reached 80. I suck but I’m learnig to play and my HoX is my favorite. I’m using your build and loving it. Thanks.
WhARe is nothing but a total redo of WoW in so many ways. ways i cant really think of but its just a massive disappointment. AoC is by far the most unqiue MMO out there at this time or atleast in my eyes it is. its just the fact that people are hitting on FC b/c they suck at MMO when they accually out did themselfs on this one. all it needs is time lol
I LOVE the Group vs ONE monster MMORPG. It makes the world dangerous and it requires you to work as a team. I’m sick and tired of Diablo2 MMORPG where the margin of error is HUGE you can make many mistakes still emerge victorious. I pray every night(joking) that someone would create a dangerous MMORPG where you can not solo 1 monster/NPC and you’re required to work as a TEAM using tactics(pulling, healing, tanking, CC..etc). I didn’t try Warhammer, but I just remembered EverQuest which had the best feeling of a dangerous world.
@Claw You get group vs one monster in group dungeons or when facing elite mobs. With a good, capable team, that turns into a boring yawnfest. Tank pulls, gets aggro, healer heals and everyone just DPS’s until dead.
We’ve all done that same group thing so many times.
Group vs group…now that’s fun. That’s one thing I loved about City of Heroes. With more monsters, there is far more variety in each combat encounter.
What class have you been playing as in WAR?
Are you aware that numerous classes are capable of AOE farming in WAR at later levels?
The initial tier of RvR combat may appear bland, although have you set foot in at the very least any of the T2 scenarios?
If your playing as a tank class, I highly suggest re-rolling. The games not too interesting as a tank until well into T2 when they gain the majority of their interesting abilities.
You know, I’ve been wondering why don’t people make more MMOs like CoH/V instead of this constant, “Lets copy the hell out of Everquest =D” BS. Don’t get me wrong, I like AoC and I’m not planning on joining WAR because, like WoW, it seems like it’s a grind fest until you can raid or PVP and I’m not a PVP kind of guy (I save PvP for FPS’s where things balance out with a snipe to the face).
The fact is, CoH/V has had a longer success than WoW with a steady stream of quality players. Yea, not as much players as WoW, but a constant stream. People bash on instancing and the differences between WoW, AoC, and WAR, but the only true original is CoH/V (Until Champions Online and DC Online comes out).
I could be dead wrong in your opinion, but MISSIONS (not fairy quests) that are specifically tailered to your difficulty setting and team size sounds a hell of a lot better than, “Here, do this, you might meet a Boss that you cant solo and your travels across an entire map will be all in vain, but you won’t know till you get there!”
Quit WH, back to AOC.
WH is very boring end game.
I just started Warhammer ive started pvp in scenarios at lvl one its a R&R PvP game . Pve is optional but u get better fun and renown hammering and being hammered by the side. I seen heaps of people trying to play the game just as a PVE quest game. That is not its focus. Jump in straight away the R&R and PVP which is fantastic.
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